From: Charles Marcus (no email)
Date: Tue May 01 2007 - 10:38:29 EDT
>> Sometimes you (and others on this list) are a bit arrogant in your
>> treatment of people who don't exhibit an acceptably (to you)
>> advanced level of knowledge and expertise, but that is your right,
>> and I'm not complaining about it.
>> Is there a postfix support list that is a little more forgiving,
>> and willing to help people new to postfix (specifically), and mail
>> server administration (in general)?
> Apparently I am too demanding when I expect that people follow simple
> step-by-step instructions when reporting a problem.
Thats not what I meant. If I thought so, I wouldn't still be here.
I didn't have access to his logs, so I couldn't provide them, and I
thought he had already provided postconf -n output.
What I did provide was specific details on how he is using/trying to use
postfix, which I thought might be enough for someone to simply say 'you
need to read up on how to configure postfix as xyz', which is all I wanted.
>> If not, I guess we'll just keep plugging away, and hopefully
>> eventually get there.
> Again, good luck. Don't let my arrogance get in the way.
Whether you believe it or not, I didn't mean that comment as an insult.
Your (minimal/occasional) arrogance is well-deserved, and I wouldn't
expect you to waste your time holding mine or anyone else's hand - I'd
much prefer that you spend your time making postfix better.
That said, you could just ignore requests/posts that you don't want to
respond to, rather than taking jabs at someone. But, it is your list, so
I have never complained about it till now...
> If the list is unforgiving, it has as much to do with the topic matter
> as anything else. It turns out that running a mail server *does* require
> an advanced level of knowledge and expertise, and perhaps novices are
> roughly encouraged to get up to speed before assuming the responsibility
> of managing a public server, especially if they want a solution 'Today'.
I agree. The reality is, though, that some people want to run one now,
and don't want to spend months or years 'coming up to speed' to the
point that they will submit perfect error reports, or properly absorb
every detail in a well-commented config file.
For that, I guess I'll have to rely more on distro-centric support lists
rather than the biggie, and only come here when I'm unable to get an
answer anywhere else, and just be prepared to not post my
question/problem until I have all relevant/pertinent details on hand.
> Sadly, a poorly managed mail server soon becomes a problem for the rest
> of us, and there is no acceptable level of 'almost working'. So, put on
> your bulletproof vest, show that you are doing your research (submitting
> proper error reports indicates you've read the documentation), and
> you'll benefit from the knowledge base available on this list (I know I
Agreed, and is what I've done for my own server. Thankfully, my current
needs are fairly simple, so getting a secure, correctly configured
server was relatively easy.
> You're unlikely to find the same level of quality anywhere else on
> the topic of Postfix, or even general SMTP-related issues. The
> developers actively participate and even provide patches (!) to solve
> proven issues. You don't often see that level of dedication in a
> project, free or not.
Agreed again - I've no complaints, aside from the fact that, when
someone posts without rtfm (whether out of haste or laziness), sometimes
gruffness (sometimes to the point of rudeness) is offered, rather than
silence, which is what I would do if it were me.
Anyway, enough said - I'll work with Wade on the Ubuntu list and see if
we both can't learn something.
-- Best regards, Charles