Re: NTP Md5 or AutoKey?

From: Steven M. Bellovin (no email)
Date: Tue Nov 04 2008 - 04:39:41 EST

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    On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 01:52:05 -0500
     wrote:

    > On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 22:23:07 PST, Paul Ferguson said:
    >
    > > I'm just wondering -- in globak scheme of security issue, is NTP
    > > security a major issue?
    >
    > The biggest problem is that you pretty much have to spoof a server
    > that the client is already configured to be accepting NTP packets
    > from. And *then* you have to remember that your packets can only lie
    > about the time by a very small number of milliseconds or they get
    > tossed out by the NTP packet filter that measures the apparent
    > jitter. Remember, the *real* clock is also sending correct updates.
    > At *best*, you lie like hell, and get the clock thrown out as an
    > "insane" timesource. But at that point, a properly configured clock
    > will go on autopilot till a quorum of sane clocks reappears, so you
    > don't have much chance of wedging in a huge time slew (unless you
    > *really* hit the jackpot, and the client reboots and does an ntpdate
    > and you manage to cram in enough false packets to mis-set the clock
    > then).
    >
    > So in most cases, you can only push the clock around by milliseconds
    > - and that doesn't buy you very much room for a replay attack or
    > similar, because that's under the retransmit timeout for a lost
    > packet. It isn't like you can get away with replaying something from
    > 5 minutes ago.
    >
    > Now, if you wanted to be *dastardly*, you'd figure out where a site's
    > Stratum-1 server(s) have their GPS antennas, and you'd read the recent
    > research on spoofing GPS signals - at *that* point you'd have a good
    > chance of controlling the horizontal and vertical....
    >
    http://nob.cs.ucdavis.edu/bishop/papers/1990-acsac/ is old but does
    have a good analysis of the problem.

                    --Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb




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